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Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/7/2010 7:20:05 PM
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Benny44
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Talk by Dennis Venema, geneticist at Trinity Western University, on genomics, evolution, and evangelical Christian responses.
Part 1
Part 2
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/7/2010 8:08:23 PM
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gralan
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I would say that before one can actually answer that question, definitions for "Evangelical Christian", Christian, and Evolution would need to be defined.
Evangelical Christianity is a branch of the Christian Church that has so named itself and movement.
Evolution can be divided into 4 parts necessarily:
Unknown beginning which spawns development of life from a single start through all species leading eventually to Humankind. This is what Stephen J Gould believed.
Evolution as a religious concept that presents itself as a theory of "Black Holes, the universe and everything" as contraindicated by Christianity in particular but also any theistic concept whatsoever. It is distinctively Anti-God in any conceivable way possible as its prime motivator.
This is what Richard Dawkins believes.
The process of change within a species that occurs "naturally" during the course of time, genetic discrepencies and alterations, and the environment. This is what biology proves, and is not in contention at all by any person.
That is, unless said person doesn't see progress being inferred, but rather a process of loss in which the correct term probably would be "De-evolution". This is in agreement with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and with the observations of real biological changes that have occurred in known species. Animals lose abilities and never have the "ability" to gain them back. A sub-species change to no pupils in the fish eyes? They never grow back. Hello?
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suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
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The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/7/2010 10:55:00 PM
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drmark
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Welcome to the Forums, Benny!
I really don't have a lot of time to watch these videos. Can you summarize the major points in a few paragraphs? Thanks!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/8/2010 5:49:28 AM
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Benny44
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It's quite difficult to summarize in writing, some of it is fairly technical. That is why the video with the slides, and the expertise of the lecturer, make it very interesting to watch.
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/8/2010 8:51:39 AM
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drmark
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Frankly, Benny, if it's not worth summarizing then it's not worth discussing, IMO.
Do you think rejecting evolution is required for someone to be a Christian? Do you think accepting evolution means someone is not a Christian?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/12/2010 1:33:17 AM
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gralan
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Actually I do not mind discussing these things.
My primary concern is still there though.
I'm not wanting an argument, even in the classical sense, at this point.
I'm hoping to have some definitions in place.
Evangelical means ? Aside from the fact that Christianity deals with the Evangel, what is it you or the person you are referring to mean by using the term Evangelical Christian?
If by "Evangelical Christian" you refer to the modern movement of Christians separating themselves from the Fundamentalists which embarrased many Christians by believing that all forms of intellect were worthless back in the day (shall we just commit to the first 20 years of the 20th century? That's close enough in my books.), then we need to know that because it is significant. However, if you mean folks who believe that Jesus lived, died and was resurrected unto new life being our propitiation, and our eternal Lord and Master raised to new life ahead of us and according to God's Triune Plan to redeem us from our sins and cause us to bear fruit of the Holy Spirit... then that means another thing and we can get around avoiding some of the problems with labels.
Now most of the Fundamentalists were groups of Christians who felt that too much emphasis was laid upon human understanding and "knowledge" now that since the Enlightenment too much emphasis was placed upon the individual making decisions about what was right and wrong. In addition to this they rejected the ability of Science without Theology as it's Queen of Sciences, to move ahead with Humanist belief to discount the plain testimony of the Bible as had been "presumed" as foundational for centuries.
There are reasons why events in the past happened. If you are asking questions that require simple answers, some foundational information about definitions really help some of us. These conversations have been occuring for a very long time. Certain definitions are really in order.
Are you really interested in the viewpoint of people who just react with a "knee-jerk" reaction to buzz words, or things that insult their "sensibilities" based upon folks they admired and trusted?
If so, you may be in the right place but some of us who would like to engage have been hammered by folks who do not take such things into account.
I, of course, are always willing to take emails at my address at gcandj@gmail.com. I am willing to rationally and spiritually discuss things.
I can't warrant I will do you a great service by responding, but I'm willing to respond.
BTW, I'm not discounting the supposition that you should be able to account for the main point of the information you are asking us to preview before we respond. And some form of definition needs to be applied at some point. Perhaps we can get there together? That seems okay to me.
Please be patient with us, God is not finished with us yet.
Peace in Him. Out!
 baaa, sure yabetcha!
< Message edited by gralan -- 3/12/2010 1:42:58 AM >
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/12/2010 10:26:18 PM
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tacitus
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There is probably a difference between "can they accept evolution" and "do they accept evolution".
I have heard a good number of Christian leaders, many of them who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, say that while those believers who accept evolution may be "in error" they are still Christians if they believe in the central tenets of the faith -- the Resurrection, the Doctrine of Salvation, and so on. I always get the feeling that they think it is a grievous error that casts someone's faith in some doubt, but they usually (reluctantly) accept that a Christian can accept evolution. I have certainly known a couple of Christians (not evangelicals) who accept evolution *and* the inerrancy of the Bible. (It takes a little work, but they are sincere and have studied the issues involved thoroughly.)
Now, I suspect that not many evangelicals actually do accept evolution, but I am sure there are some. It is actually quite a diverse group of Christians, and there are some quite liberal evangelical churches out there -- they tend to focus more on the social Gospel, so those I have met didn't really seem to worry too much about origins issues, but I suspect there is probably a mix of views within that type of congregation.
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/13/2010 8:10:15 AM
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wretched1
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Welcome to the forums.
I'm not sure if you are asking the question posed in the topic title or merely repeating the title of the video series. The answer to the topic question is yes. As gralan pointed out, there are some terms that might need hashing out during any discussion... but of course the answer to the question is yes since that is what Dennis claims to be "an Evangelical Christian that accepts Evolution".
BTW, if you are going to give a link to part one and two - you might as well give the like to all 12 parts (almost 2 hours of videos) http://www.youtube.com/user/JT898#g/c/74E2DBC1A435FDE0
I watched them all. Was there some aspect of the info presented that you wished to discuss? Do you want people to present the problems w/ Theistic Evolution?
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C.S. Lewis
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RE: Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution? - 3/15/2010 8:48:22 PM
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SamWeiss
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That presentation of Venema's gets posted every once and a while in forums such as this one.
But your question, in the title of the thread: "Can an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution?" has a simple answer: Yes.
I suppose the question you are intending to ask is "Should an Evangelical Christian Accept Evolution?"
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