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KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 4:58:26 PM
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Marcus.
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The president intends to overthrow American capitalism.
By Jeffrey T. Kuhner
President Obama is close to completing his socialist revolution. Since coming to power last year, he has sought relentlessly to transform America. From his days as a student radical, Mr. Obama has been obsessed with smashing the traditional free-market system. Like most leftists, he thinks capitalism is the enemy.
"He was a Marxist-socialist in college," said John C. Drew, who knew Mr. Obama as a university student, in an interview. "He kept talking about the need to overthrow capitalism in favor of a working-class revolution."
One of Mr. Obama's favorite philosophers was Frantz Fanon, a post-colonial Marxist who championed Third World liberation movements. Fanon argued that the West - led by America - was based on racism, imperialism and the economic exploitation of the world's poor. The only remedy was authoritarian socialism and a massive redistribution of wealth from Western nations to developing countries.
Editorial Continues
Thoughts? Fears even?
Please keep this polite and courteous.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 5:01:10 PM
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tacitus
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Laughably wrong in just about every respect. Obama is not a socialist, period, and likely never has been.
Great fearmongering though.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 5:04:23 PM
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Marcus.
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It definitely plays to fears based on Obama's past political leanings and associations.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 5:13:16 PM
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rlj
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quote:
Thoughts? Fears even?
B0, Pelosi, Reid and too many of the "leaders" of the Democratic Party are too far to the left. W got an awful lot of legislation passed with a lead in the House and a Dem Senate for 2 years and a slight majority for 4 years. B0 has had a rock solid House lead and a super-majority in the Senate for almost a year and he's accomplished so little of what he seems to want to accomplish. Just like the "heartland" doesn't much care for New England Republicans it doesn't care for the extreme liberal coasts of the Dems. Speaking for myself, a majority of the people I know who have CCW licenses are Democrats. They don't much care for B0 either since him and some of the leaders are simply out of touch with what we believe here.
However this part of the Editorial really perturbed me:
quote:
Under these arcane rules, a simple majority in the Senate of 50 Democratic votes plus a tie-breaker from Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. will be enough to pass health care reform. The filibuster will be rendered impotent.
This is unprecedented. Never in our history has reconciliation been used to pass a major piece of social legislation on a narrow partisan majority. Obamacare will overhaul nearly one-sixth of the U.S. economy.
Sorry Mr. Kuhner if a bill passes - no matter how much you hate it - with a simple majority then it is called democracy.
I totally disagree with comparing government run health care being compared to "cradle to grave" statism. Tell that to the people who are losing their houses, their credit ratings, their vehicles, etc. because of their medical bills. Better yet tell that to the people who are aborting their babies over Down Syndrome because they can't possibly afford the extra medical care this will cost them.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 5:21:08 PM
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tacitus
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Of course, it's classic guilt by association. Even if it was true that he was a socialist in his youth, it's not at all uncommon to be more radical when you're young, when you think you can change the world for the better. Young conversatives tend to be more radical too than in later years.
But really, the very first sentence gets it completely wrong:
"President Obama is close to completing his socialist revolution."
Either Kuhner is lying, or he completely and utterly ignorant of what socialism really is . I would wager that the average eighth-grader has a better grasp of it than he claims to do.
Even Obama's boldest plan, health care reform, in the form that it is likely to pass, leaves the private sector completely intact. Regulation does not equal takeover. The 0.5% of the private sector he did take over (Chrysler and GM) are actively making plans to be re-floated on the stock market within the next two years. If Obama is really trying to complete a socialist revolution before the next election, he's being shockingly incompetent about it.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 5:34:34 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
Sorry Mr. Kuhner if a bill passes - no matter how much you hate it - with a simple majority then it is called democracy.
Agreed -- but it fits in with the meme being spread about by the right at the moment. Newt Gingrich condemned it as "majoritarianism" (lol) and others have called it the "tyranny of the majority".
Of course historically it's always been the conservatives who were the first to stand up for the "rights of the majority". But I guess that's less appealing now that they find themselves in the minority.
I still thoroughly disagree with your claim that BO is an "extreme liberal". Obama a classic moderate liberal at best. He's hardly done anything the left wing of the party expected and wanted him to do. He compromised on the stimulus package (half of it was tax cuts when it should not have been, which conservatives conveniently ignore), he's bent over backwards to find any sort of middle ground on health care even though liberals wanted him to forget about compromising (he now wants four Republican ideas put in the bill, much to the disgust of the more liberal members of Congress). And he's done absolutely nothing to hold the last administration accountable for employing torture or conducting warrantless wire taps, and nor has he rolled back any of the additional powers Bush/Cheney aggregated for themselves in connection with the WOT.
In short, Obama has been a big disappointment to the left wing of the Democratic party, and he's been as successful as an extreme liberal as he as been as a socialist -- i.e. not at all.
And I have no idea why you are worried as a CCW holder. Has Obama done anything regarding gun control since he took office. I don't believe he's even said anything, let alone acted on anything. (Another disappointment to the liberal wing, btw) You are just buying into the fearmongering that's been spread around by the right wing.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 5:49:21 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
I still thoroughly disagree with your claim that BO is an "extreme liberal". Obama a classic moderate liberal at best. He's hardly done anything the left wing of the party expected and wanted him to do.
Not for lack of trying, if he and the democrats would have just owned what they were trying to do instead of trying to force the republicans into accepting some of the blame they could have passed alot more of their agenda. They just aren't willing to commit political suicide. BO is much further left than you make him out to be, he is bending over backwards as you put it because he knows he can't stay in power while pushing his agenda.
quote:
And he's done absolutely nothing to hold the last administration accountable for employing torture or conducting warrantless wire taps, and nor has he rolled back any of the additional powers Bush/Cheney aggregated for themselves in connection with the WOT.
it couldn't possibly be that he has seen the necessity of some of the measures now could it?
quote:
In short, Obama has been a big disappointment to the left wing of the Democratic party, and he's been as successful as an extreme liberal as he as been as a socialist -- i.e. not at all.
That he has failed to push his stated agenda doesn't mean that he isn't on the left, only that he is incompetent.
quote:
And I have no idea why you are worried as a CCW holder. Has Obama done anything regarding gun control since he took office. I don't believe he's even said anything, let alone acted on anything. (Another disappointment to the liberal wing, btw) You are just buying into the fearmongering that's been spread around by the right wing.
It is his views on personal firearms ownership that bothers gun owners. That he doesn't currently have the political power to push what he has openly stated he desires in the past does not mean that we should just ignore him and hope that he never gets the momentum it would take to enable him to push his agendas successfully.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 6:42:25 PM
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TrojanHusker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
It definitely plays to fears based on Obama's past political leanings and associations.
While spending the whole time using the Health Care Bill to try and prove his point.
After a whole year of the Obama Administration, you'd think the guy would have a few more examples.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 6:53:06 PM
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Marcus.
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I think his gross lack of experience is at the fore still. He is less qualified for the position than Mrs. Palin is.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 6:54:28 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I think his gross lack of experience is at the fore still. He is less qualified for the position than Mrs. Palin is.
All I can say is that I truly hope we never have to put that to the test.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 7:39:35 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
Laughably wrong in just about every respect. Obama is not a socialist, period, and likely never has been.
Just keep telling yourself that, all the way to the re-education camp.
Though you may not need a lot of indoctrination.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 11:38:17 PM
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TrojanHusker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TrojanHusker
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
It definitely plays to fears based on Obama's past political leanings and associations.
While spending the whole time using the Health Care Bill to try and prove his point.
After a whole year of the Obama Administration, you'd think the guy would have a few more examples.
I think his gross lack of experience is at the fore still. He is less qualified for the position than Mrs. Palin is.
And yet the article says nothing about a lack of qualifications or experience.
In fact, it uses words like -
"sought relentlessly"
"been obsessed"
"kept talking about the need"
"studied and tried to mimic the activism"
"pursuing his political project"
"almost reckless desire"
"abuse of power"
"Obama's actions"
"willing to sacrifice his party's political fortunes in November - and even his own re-election"
"relentlessly giving birth to a new nation"
All this, just about the Health Care Bill Obama's been pushing for a whole year
These words hardly make it sound like Obama's an inexperienced President; And one might even say that for Obama to pursue these machiavellian goals as claimed by the article, he is definitly a qualified leader (albeit an evil one).
So now we come back to the topic of the article, not the one stated in the title but the theme that runs all through-out it: The president intends to overthrow American capitalism by forcing universal health care on America. There is no supporting data other than the opinion of the author that this will be so.
One may as well inject an insurance VP with rabies and hand him pen & paper to get such a self-serving rant. This sort of nonsense belongs on the conspiracy thread.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/5/2010 11:39:33 PM
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wing2000
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If this is all the Republicans have to offer, they can kiss the Independent voter good bye.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 12:50:44 AM
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relady
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quote:
Newt Gingrich condemned it as "majoritarianism" (lol) and others have called it the "tyranny of the majority". Funny, he didn't call it that when he was Speaker and running things. Quite the opposite in fact. There was not even an attempt at bipartisanship. So who cares what he has to say -- his credibility is in the dumper where it belongs.
quote:
If this is all the Republicans have to offer, they can kiss the Independent voter good bye. Gotta love the "Party of NO". They just need to keep it up a little longer.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 5:23:43 AM
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rlj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
If this is all the Republicans have to offer, they can kiss the Independent voter good bye.
Hey now, they have Sarah to offer.
_____________________________
This is our new kitty and we have a new cat who must be so fat I can't crop a picture of him to fit my CW Avatar. His name is Tom Riddle. This little guy here I found in the yard in May, this is Cosmo.
--Roger--
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 9:27:19 AM
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Born_Again
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
If this is all the Republicans have to offer, they can kiss the Independent voter good bye.
Hey now, they have Sarah to offer.
and Glenn Back
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 10:15:33 AM
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Marcus.
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From: Minnesota
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
If this is all the Republicans have to offer, they can kiss the Independent voter good bye.
Hey now, they have Sarah to offer.
and Glenn Back
Hopefully there will be others more qualified and more eloquent to choose from come the next election.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 10:39:34 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Hopefully there will be others more qualified and more eloquent to choose from come the next election.
The more qualified I am all for, but the eloquent; not so much.
We have an eloquent leader at the present; and he is leading us to a train wreck with that eloquence.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 11:32:58 AM
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Marcus.
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I know but if a candidate can't get their message across well, the folks seem to drift to the better speaker.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 10:11:11 PM
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sirmixalot
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It would by my hope that by the next election we would have more diverse spectrum of political parties and candidates to choose from. It wouldnt hurt to have a socialist on the ballot.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 10:16:33 PM
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tacitus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
Laughably wrong in just about every respect. Obama is not a socialist, period, and likely never has been.
Just keep telling yourself that, all the way to the re-education camp.
Though you may not need a lot of indoctrination.
Thanks
RC
RC, have you been listening to Alex Jones again?
I tell ya, he's not good for your sanity.
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/6/2010 11:45:29 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 2992
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Minnesota
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sirmixalot
It would by my hope that by the next election we would have more diverse spectrum of political parties and candidates to choose from. It wouldn't hurt to have a socialist on the ballot.
You must not look at all the selections. There are usually 20 or so candidates from all types of political parties on the ballot. Republican, Democrat, Independents, KKK, Communists, Nazis, etc. There is always a few socialist and fascists to choose from. Besides based on his past associations, preferences and studies; Obama is more socialist than Democrat.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 3/6/2010 11:54:23 PM >
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RE: KUHNER: The United Socialist States of America - 3/7/2010 12:53:07 AM
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tacitus
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LOL. Let's see what some real socialists think:
Greg Pason, National Secretary of the Socialist Party USA: “Barack Obama's programs are not socialist. The vast majority of his proposals are anti-worker (or he might say ‘pro-business’). His health care proposals are more to save the for-profit insurance industry and do not have the goal of ending for-profit insurance. He has refused to support a Senate version of HR676, which would create a single-payer program (not socialist but much better than we have, and [which has] the support of labor and community organizations across the US). Many of his other economic proposals are pro-corporate.
A socialist program (even a reformist one) would not be a program that props up capitalism when it fails, but one that transforms the economy. None of Senator Obama's proposals do that. Senator Obama’s tax plan is regressive and even less ‘progressive’ than programs put forward under such conservative administrations like the one of Richard Nixon.”
F.N. Brill, National Secretary of the World Socialist Party (US): “Obama is as much a socialist as the Pope is an atheist. Income redistribution isn't a socialist act. It might aid in ameliorating income disparities within a capitalist economy for a limited time. But the logic of capitalism demands the rich grow richer (more capitalization is needed) and the poor grow poorer (their work creates the needed capital used by the rich).”
David Schaich, Socialist Party Campaign Clearinghouse Coordinator: “The idea that Barack Obama is socialist, or quasi-socialist, or semi-socialist, or socialist-light, or anything of the sort, is far-right nonsense. Barack Obama, like John McCain, is very much a ‘politician as usual,’fully committed to the continuation of the capitalist system and the expansion of its empire.”
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28645
Hmm. Not much love lost there.
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